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	<title>Comments on: What If RAND Were WRONG?</title>
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	<description>The Ultimate Massachusetts Health Care Insider Information</description>
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		<title>By: Healthcare Economist &#183; The truth about the RAND HIE</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Healthcare Economist &#183; The truth about the RAND HIE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Recently, there has been much controversy regarding whether or not the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (HIE) results are truly robust. Many blogs have been questioning the results (see here, here and here). One of the major conclusions of the HIE are that higher co-insurance rates lead to lower levels of medical utilization and lower medical cost, but do not have any adverse impact on health outcomes. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Recently, there has been much controversy regarding whether or not the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (HIE) results are truly robust. Many blogs have been questioning the results (see here, here and here). One of the major conclusions of the HIE are that higher co-insurance rates lead to lower levels of medical utilization and lower medical cost, but do not have any adverse impact on health outcomes. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Healthy Blog &#187; The RAND Chronicles: Newhouse Responds</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Healthy Blog &#187; The RAND Chronicles: Newhouse Responds]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Harvard Medical School&#8217;s Dr. Joe Newhouse was the principal investigator of the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (HIE). As such, he would be expected to have an interest in discussion about potential flawed conclusions from the HIE because of unequal attrition rates, pointed out by Dr. John Nyman of the University of Minnesota, described here in our 10/08/07 post. Newhouse agrees the attrition rate among groups with copayments was larger than that of the control group. He says they accounted for that in their results and that the attrition does not distort or bias the conclusions. Read his response by clicking here. Let us know if you find his response convincing. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Harvard Medical School&#8217;s Dr. Joe Newhouse was the principal investigator of the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (HIE). As such, he would be expected to have an interest in discussion about potential flawed conclusions from the HIE because of unequal attrition rates, pointed out by Dr. John Nyman of the University of Minnesota, described here in our 10/08/07 post. Newhouse agrees the attrition rate among groups with copayments was larger than that of the control group. He says they accounted for that in their results and that the attrition does not distort or bias the conclusions. Read his response by clicking here. Let us know if you find his response convincing. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems unlikely that even in the primitive days of the seventies, researchers at RAND would simply ignore the fact that a disproportionately large percentage of on of their test groups dropped out of the study.  Has there been no questioning of this over the last three decades? If this study really is the only basis for the popular assertion that high co-pays do not affect health outcomes, why has it escaped critical scrutiny until now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems unlikely that even in the primitive days of the seventies, researchers at RAND would simply ignore the fact that a disproportionately large percentage of on of their test groups dropped out of the study.  Has there been no questioning of this over the last three decades? If this study really is the only basis for the popular assertion that high co-pays do not affect health outcomes, why has it escaped critical scrutiny until now?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1128</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David -

What was really being studied, albeit unintentionally, was health care outcomes in a free plan vs. health care outcomes in a high-cost plan which you could leave to go back to your original insurance if it got too expensive in the high-cost plan.  There is missing data on the health care outcomes for those who left the high-cost plan.  There is an excellent reason to suspect the missing data doesn&#039;t have the same probability distribution as the data that is present for the high-cost plan people, namely, why would it get too expensive to remain in the plan if there wasn&#039;t some adverse health outcome occurring?  And why wouldn&#039;t it often get too expensive to remain in the plan if some really serious adverse health outcome was occurring?

This is a classic missing data problem in statistics, but unfortunately most of the foundational work in missing data hadn&#039;t been done at the time of the RAND study, so they may well have not realized their results were going to be biased by not following up on all the dropouts.  We wouldn&#039;t do it that way today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David -</p>
<p>What was really being studied, albeit unintentionally, was health care outcomes in a free plan vs. health care outcomes in a high-cost plan which you could leave to go back to your original insurance if it got too expensive in the high-cost plan.  There is missing data on the health care outcomes for those who left the high-cost plan.  There is an excellent reason to suspect the missing data doesn&#8217;t have the same probability distribution as the data that is present for the high-cost plan people, namely, why would it get too expensive to remain in the plan if there wasn&#8217;t some adverse health outcome occurring?  And why wouldn&#8217;t it often get too expensive to remain in the plan if some really serious adverse health outcome was occurring?</p>
<p>This is a classic missing data problem in statistics, but unfortunately most of the foundational work in missing data hadn&#8217;t been done at the time of the RAND study, so they may well have not realized their results were going to be biased by not following up on all the dropouts.  We wouldn&#8217;t do it that way today.</p>
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		<title>By: David Witt</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Witt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nyman raises the question of whether the HIE could be wrong in it&#039;s conclusion that health is not affected by the addition of co-insurance payment requirements to reduce moral hazard in insured individuals consumption of healthcare. His assertion is that since 179 individuals dropped out of the 3+ year study from the group with co-insurance and only 5 dropped out of the free-care group; a sixteen-fold difference, that the members of the study that dropped out did so because they were in poor health and needed to reestablish their previous insurance coverage that would not of had co-insurance in that timeframe 30 years ago.

This suggestion of a cause-effect relationship created from a statistical phenomenon, while factually based, is problematic at best. There are several other potential causes that may have created the effect of dropping out of the study. It is hard to imagine all of the determinants in a study some 3 decades ago in quite a different healthcare environment, but at least two seem plausible. First, the nature of the cognitive decision process that lies at the heart of the cost-sharing incentive. When the individual is at home or work and begins to think about seeing a healthcare provider for a symptomatic or asymptomatic perceived problem, they are encouraged by the incentive to balance the cost with the need. An issue with the method used in co-insurance incentives is the uncertainty of the amount of the payment required as it is a percentage of the cost of treatment. This uncertainty creates anxiety in the individual. Some individuals tolerate anxiety better than others. It is possible that some portion of the 179 individuals did not wish to continue with this anxiety even though the real money involved was negligible as the subjects in the study were virtually made whole by the payments made to them for being included in the study. Second, the state of the reimbursement process was complicated by the addition of a co-insurance calculation and payment process not just for the subject, but for the provider; in fact, both were burdened additionally by the process that was unfamiliar to them and must have seemed cumbersome at the time. It would be easy to extrapolate that some part of the 179 subjects that dropped out did not appreciate the extra bureaucracy created by the paperwork and did not see that it was worth being in the study since they would not benefit enough to put up with it.

Would Occam find that the subjects were all ill as the most likely cause of dropping out? Perhaps the psychological distress theory is more likely. Was there an adverse selection in reverse that was caused by illness in the 179 subjects? Nyman proposes a logical argument based on a statistical fact, but is that enough to discount the Health Insurance Experiment?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nyman raises the question of whether the HIE could be wrong in it&#8217;s conclusion that health is not affected by the addition of co-insurance payment requirements to reduce moral hazard in insured individuals consumption of healthcare. His assertion is that since 179 individuals dropped out of the 3+ year study from the group with co-insurance and only 5 dropped out of the free-care group; a sixteen-fold difference, that the members of the study that dropped out did so because they were in poor health and needed to reestablish their previous insurance coverage that would not of had co-insurance in that timeframe 30 years ago.</p>
<p>This suggestion of a cause-effect relationship created from a statistical phenomenon, while factually based, is problematic at best. There are several other potential causes that may have created the effect of dropping out of the study. It is hard to imagine all of the determinants in a study some 3 decades ago in quite a different healthcare environment, but at least two seem plausible. First, the nature of the cognitive decision process that lies at the heart of the cost-sharing incentive. When the individual is at home or work and begins to think about seeing a healthcare provider for a symptomatic or asymptomatic perceived problem, they are encouraged by the incentive to balance the cost with the need. An issue with the method used in co-insurance incentives is the uncertainty of the amount of the payment required as it is a percentage of the cost of treatment. This uncertainty creates anxiety in the individual. Some individuals tolerate anxiety better than others. It is possible that some portion of the 179 individuals did not wish to continue with this anxiety even though the real money involved was negligible as the subjects in the study were virtually made whole by the payments made to them for being included in the study. Second, the state of the reimbursement process was complicated by the addition of a co-insurance calculation and payment process not just for the subject, but for the provider; in fact, both were burdened additionally by the process that was unfamiliar to them and must have seemed cumbersome at the time. It would be easy to extrapolate that some part of the 179 subjects that dropped out did not appreciate the extra bureaucracy created by the paperwork and did not see that it was worth being in the study since they would not benefit enough to put up with it.</p>
<p>Would Occam find that the subjects were all ill as the most likely cause of dropping out? Perhaps the psychological distress theory is more likely. Was there an adverse selection in reverse that was caused by illness in the 179 subjects? Nyman proposes a logical argument based on a statistical fact, but is that enough to discount the Health Insurance Experiment?</p>
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		<title>By: A Healthy Blog &#187; &#8220;Is RAND WRONG&#8221; Gets Noticed&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A Healthy Blog &#187; &#8220;Is RAND WRONG&#8221; Gets Noticed&#8230;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 21:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] We invite you to check out the new Health Wonk Review over at the Healthcare Economist blog. Our 10/08/07 posting on the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (&#8221;What If RAND Were WRONG?&#8220;) was selected as one of the two best posts of the week. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We invite you to check out the new Health Wonk Review over at the Healthcare Economist blog. Our 10/08/07 posting on the RAND Health Insurance Experiment (&#8221;What If RAND Were WRONG?&#8220;) was selected as one of the two best posts of the week. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bradford Kirkman-Liff</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bradford Kirkman-Liff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Health care has substantially changed snce the time of the RAND study.

(1) Catastrophic case management, disease management, physician practice profiling, 24/7 nurse telephone triage, and other elements of managed care are included not just in HMO plans but also in most PPO plans  and in some of the high-deductible consumer-directed health plans.

(2) Most HMO plans now have patient copayments - with varying copayments for specialists versus primary care physicians, prescription pharmacy benefit, and so forth.

(3) I recall that a further analysis of the RAND study that appeared in Medical Care did demonstrate that low-income and chronically ill patents did have less utilization of appropriate care under high cost sharing.

The consumer directed health plan-HSA advocates need current data to bolster their claims.

I have not seen a single comparison of a high deductible health plan with an HSA to an HMO (as would happen in a large employer providing their employees a choice among those two options). All of the comparisons that have been shown to me are high deductible health plans with HSAs compared to PPOs. My employer has over 85% enrollment in HMO plans (the rest are in PPO plans). A high deductible health plan with a Medical Savings Account was offered for three years several years ago and less than 1% of employees opted for that choice.

Until I see current data, I am skeptical.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Health care has substantially changed snce the time of the RAND study.</p>
<p>(1) Catastrophic case management, disease management, physician practice profiling, 24/7 nurse telephone triage, and other elements of managed care are included not just in HMO plans but also in most PPO plans  and in some of the high-deductible consumer-directed health plans.</p>
<p>(2) Most HMO plans now have patient copayments &#8211; with varying copayments for specialists versus primary care physicians, prescription pharmacy benefit, and so forth.</p>
<p>(3) I recall that a further analysis of the RAND study that appeared in Medical Care did demonstrate that low-income and chronically ill patents did have less utilization of appropriate care under high cost sharing.</p>
<p>The consumer directed health plan-HSA advocates need current data to bolster their claims.</p>
<p>I have not seen a single comparison of a high deductible health plan with an HSA to an HMO (as would happen in a large employer providing their employees a choice among those two options). All of the comparisons that have been shown to me are high deductible health plans with HSAs compared to PPOs. My employer has over 85% enrollment in HMO plans (the rest are in PPO plans). A high deductible health plan with a Medical Savings Account was offered for three years several years ago and less than 1% of employees opted for that choice.</p>
<p>Until I see current data, I am skeptical.</p>
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		<title>By: Health Affairs Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Health Affairs Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Hosting the latest Health Wonk Review, Jason Shafrin at the Healthcare Economist highlights two posts as the week&#8217;s best. On A Healthy Blog, John McDonough reviews an article suggesting that the RAND health experiment &#8212; the &#8220;gold standard&#8221; for health economics &#8212; could be wrong. And on Wachter&#8217;s World, Bob Wachter discusses pay-for-performance, observing that 79 percent of physicians believe that P4P is just a scheme to save money by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hosting the latest Health Wonk Review, Jason Shafrin at the Healthcare Economist highlights two posts as the week&#8217;s best. On A Healthy Blog, John McDonough reviews an article suggesting that the RAND health experiment &#8212; the &#8220;gold standard&#8221; for health economics &#8212; could be wrong. And on Wachter&#8217;s World, Bob Wachter discusses pay-for-performance, observing that 79 percent of physicians believe that P4P is just a scheme to save money by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Healthcare Economist &#183; Health Wonk Review</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Healthcare Economist &#183; Health Wonk Review]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The gold standard for Health Economics is the RAND experiment. But what if the conclusions from RAND were wrong? This is the question posed by John McDonough of  A Healthy Blog. McDonough reviews an  October 2007 article by John Nyman, stating that differential attrition rates between those assigned to the free plan and those assigned to the cost-sharing plan may be a cause for concern. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The gold standard for Health Economics is the RAND experiment. But what if the conclusions from RAND were wrong? This is the question posed by John McDonough of  A Healthy Blog. McDonough reviews an  October 2007 article by John Nyman, stating that differential attrition rates between those assigned to the free plan and those assigned to the cost-sharing plan may be a cause for concern. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Lischko</title>
		<link>http://blog.hcfama.org/2007/10/08/what-if-rand-was-wrong/#comment-1122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Lischko]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.hcfama.org/?p=1210#comment-1122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a different take on this.  Most people with insurance plans in Massachusetts do NOT have high deductible plans or plans requiring high levels of cost sharing for visits to the doctor.  Although in RAND they were capped for out-of-pocket expenses the cost sharing day-to- day was significantly more than what many people experience today.  The &quot;average&quot; co-payment for a doctor&#039;s visit is $15 and that pales in comparison to a 25% or 50% cost sharing arrangment.  In addition, people typically had insurance plans that only covered hospitalizations and the like....certainly not doctor&#039;s visits and pharmaceuticals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a different take on this.  Most people with insurance plans in Massachusetts do NOT have high deductible plans or plans requiring high levels of cost sharing for visits to the doctor.  Although in RAND they were capped for out-of-pocket expenses the cost sharing day-to- day was significantly more than what many people experience today.  The &#8220;average&#8221; co-payment for a doctor&#8217;s visit is $15 and that pales in comparison to a 25% or 50% cost sharing arrangment.  In addition, people typically had insurance plans that only covered hospitalizations and the like&#8230;.certainly not doctor&#8217;s visits and pharmaceuticals.</p>
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